tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC December 10, 2009 11:00pm-12:00am EST
that will do it for this thursday edition of "countdown." i'm lawrence o'donnell in for keith olbermann. our msnbc coverage continues now with the rachel maddow show. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, lawrence. i feel somewhat inadequate. i have nothing to add to the tiger woods story. you have said it all. >> there is nothing to add. >> if i ever have any dramatic text messages in my life come out though, i definitely want you to be the one who reads them with dramatic pauses. >> oh, thank you. >> okay. thank you. all right. thank you for staying with us. we have sort of an incredible hour coming up. liberals confronting the apparent demise of the public option. some are not happy about that. pastor rick warren forced to take a position on the kill the gays legislation pending in another country, and he makes it hard both to believe and to argue with him. in very late breaking news senator jim inhofe of oklahoma has also finally decided to weigh in on that same issue. we have that for you in just a moment. plus, one senator makes performance art on the senate floor out of embarrassing
pharmaceutical ads. that is all ahead and more. we begin tonight with a pop quiz. here it is. how many sitting u.s. presidents have won the nobel peace prize? time's up. three. barack obama won it today. the other two u.s., sitting u.s. presidents who have won and neither won in their first year in office, were woodrow wilson for founding the league of nations -- which didn't really go anywhere but sounded like a nice idea at the time -- and teddy roosevelt for essentially mediating the end to a war between russia and japan about a century ago. our current president acknowledged today as he received the award that it is unusual for him to get this award before he's done anything like the accomplishments for which those two previous presidents were honored. but even beyond just the timing of this award, another issue loomed rather large over the president's acceptance today of this award for peace. >> wars between armies and wars
between nations, total wars, another world war. the prospect of war, wars between nations to wars within nations. just war -- war, itself -- war, war, going to war. >> that was sort of the theme. the president today in an eloquent speech on the nature and responsibilities of war at the very outset of his speech acknowledged the major issue and even the major irony of him getting this award and getting it now. >> i would be remiss if i did not acknowledge the considerable controversy that your generous decision has generated. in part, this is because i am at the beginning and not the end of my labors on the world stage. compared to some of the giants of history who have received this prize -- schweitzer, king, marshall, and mandela -- my accomplishments are slight.
but perhaps the most profound issue surrounding my receipt of this prize is the fact that i am the commander in chief of the military of the nation in the midst of two wars. one of these wars is winding down. >> one of these wars winding down. the other one? not so much. and the other other one? they didn't even talk about that one. the president today went into quite a bit of detail about the war in afghanistan, describing it in terms of the just war doctrine and leaving out entirely the war that we're waging now in pakistan. leaving it out because american officials still aren't talking about it out loud even though, even in today's news, there is plenty of evidence that america's third and secret war is expanding. some dramatic new reporting today on this secret war that we're suddenly learning more about each day, it seems. early in our understanding of the secret war in pakistan, all
we really knew, courtesy of then defense secretary donald rumsfeld was that the cia was waging it, at least somewhat. >> the overwhelming bulk of all activity in afghanistan since the first u.s. forces went in have been basically under the control of the central command. an exception has been the armed predators, which are cia operated. >> the armed predators. that's about all we knew about the drone operations back in 2002. it wasn't until august of this year, seven years later, that the "new york times" came out with a bombshell on the drone operation. the military contractor formerly known as blackwater was also involved in the cia's predator drone program assembling and loading missiles onto these armed, unmanned aerial vehicles. so as of this summer we knew the pakistan drone war was a joint cia/blackwater effort, but then just last month there was another major development from
the nation's jeremy scahill. contrary to what we believed to be true for years, scahill reported the u.s. military was in fact involved in the drone strikes in the secret war inside pakistan. a huge development that scahill was kind enough to flush out here on this show. okay. this is a huge deal. because in terms of learning about what we're doing with the drones, what we've been able to say up until this point is, yeah, the military uses drones in places like iraq and afghanistan. they use them for surveillance. they use them sometimes for bombing. if there are drone attacks in pakistan those are not u.s. military. that's the cia. that's why we never comment on them. you're saying that's not true. it's contractors but they are also working with the u.s. military's secret elements. >> i have multiple sources on this including a very well placed military intelligence source and part of the reason why the military intelligence source is speaking to me is because he is offended at the idea that you have these operations happening outside of the military chain of command and with no oversight from the congress.
and says that some of the highest civilian casualty attacks from the drones are not in fact cia attacks but are military attacks because as he put it they simply don't care. there's no oversight. if there's one bad guy in a building and 34 civilians, 35 people are going to die. >> that was jeremy scahill speaking on this show recently about his reporting on pakistan. now today thanks to brand new reporting from our next guest we're learning that not only is it the cia and blackwater and the secret joint special operations part of the u.s. military. in fact, the u.s. air force is helping wage the secret war in pakistan, which means this war is starting to seem like it's not going to be so secret anymore. joining us now is noah shactman contributing editor for "wired" magazine and editor of wired.com's danger room. and he is reporting new details on the drone war today. noah, i am a big fan of danger room. thanks for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> let me ask you first if i've done okay with the context here. as far as i understand it, nobody else had reported before
you today that the un-secret u.s. military, the actual u.s. air force is flying drone strikes in pakistan, is that right? >> yeah. i think this is the first time. i was over the summer at a clandestine based in southwest asia. i'm not allowed to say where but you can find it on google. >> i think i found it on google. >> and there, there is a big screen in the middle of this warehouse they've turned into the operations center for the whole air war from afghanistan to iraq, and it turns out on the big screen there was also a bunch of drones flying over pakistan, too. and it even said on the screen, pilots had to give a certain amount of notice before they entered into pakistani air space. >> so this is a u.s. military operated facility. these drones are being certainly monitored from this facility. are u.s. military -- i know they call them pilots. it's a little bit weird to call them pilots. u.s. military pilots operating these drones on these bombing raids in pakistan?
>> i don't know if they're operating them on the bombing raids, but i do know they are flying missions over pakistan. they're doing it in conjunction with the pakistani military. i think a lot of those big offensives by the pakistani military over the last few months i think have probably had some u.s. drone help. and i know that they're allowed to chase in hot pursuit a militant from the afghan side to the pakistani side of the border. and then they also seem to be running these other missions. >> other missions. which are? they're still not talking about them, but they at least let you report that they exist. >> right. that's multiple people. by the way, you showed that clip of donald rumsfeld back in 2002. already back then there were military drones flying over pakistan. i talked to a senior u.s. military official who talked about, hey, back then, oh, yeah. used to talk to the head of the pakistani air force all the time and we used to work this stuff out. >> why is it -- at least what can you tell about why it is that the -- that the u.s. military, u.s. authorities broadly speaking have been very
happy for us to think that it's just the cia operating these drones in pakistan. in effect, waging our war in pakistan. and because it's the cia, they won't talk about it. why have they been happy to let that impression stand if our military has been involved all along? >> because if it's cia secret squirrel then there's not a lot of oversight. you don't have to ask a lot of questions. remember, that on the afghan side of the border, the air war is very tightly regulated. there are all these rules about when you can drop a bomb and when you can't. i was with a group of marines in afghanistan over the summer, and they spent 36 hours under fire before they got permission to drop bombs on the guys that were shooting them. right? but then on the pakistan side of the border you hear about all these drone strikes, and there's a dozen dead, two dozen dead, three dozen dead, four dozen dead. you don't get four dozen dead in an air attack if it's tightly regulated. >> so if it makes -- the reason it is so tightly regulated on
the afghan side of the border is because of american strategy. we're trying to reduce, if not eliminate, civilian casualties as part of this whole counterinsurgency doctrine. if that strategy makes sense on the afghan side of the border why is the same strategy not used on the pakistani side of the border? >> awesome question. >> with no answer as of yet. >> i think there is a little bit of an answer. first of all, pakistan does not want to advertise it's got large numbers or any numbers of u.s. forces there on pakistani soil. so they want to keep it as secret squirrel as possible and they want to talk about the drones, not about anything else going on there. so i think that's part of it. then, yeah. there are questions about why counterinsurgency 101 works on one side of the border and not on the other. >> and the big question for, i mean, for me, just for american democracy, is what it means to have a war that we choose not to talk about and call secret even though we all tn's going on and i think that's a political question that we now have more ammunition to pursue because of your reporting.
noah shactman, the editor of wire.com's danger room, which is required reading for all of us on the show. thanks for joining us. you may remember pastor rick warren from such national appearances as president obama's inauguration. you may also remember him saying he never compared same sex marriage to pedophelia and incest even though he said those things on tape. today rick warren finally clarified his connections to a proposed law in another country to execute people for being gay. pastor warren says he issued the clarification because the media has been getting it all wrong. since we are among the few media who have been covering the story at all, it may be us that he's talking about. that's coming right up. you're probably going to want to see this. but first, one more thing. about the president's 24-hour trip to norway to pick up his peace prize, norwegians were reportedly upset that mr. obama elected to not attend traditional events nobel peace prize winners traditionally
attend, things like lunch with the king and attending a celebratory concert. this year it featured among others toby keith. ♪ you'll be sorry that you messed with the us of a ♪ ♪ because we'll put a boot in your assed ♪ ♪ it's the american way >> you know, people think it's awkward that president escalation received a peace prize. compare that to the awkwardness of the musical accompaniment of the peace prize being a performance by mr. boot in your rhymes with bass.
i don't think you can live the american lifestyle withouenergy. have all this energyerin the u.s. we have wind. we have solar, obviously. we have lots of oil. i think natural gas is part of the energ mix of the fure. i think we have the can-do. we have t technology. e solutions are here. we jt need to find them here. a very busy studio today. we've got howard dean in person on the new supposed health reform compromise up next. let's find out what people think
an update for you now on a story we've been covering for many more days in a row than i thought we would be covering it. the story involves rick warren. rick warren is perhaps the most famous pastor in america today. he was the source of great political controversy earlier this year when president obama invited him to lead prayer at the inauguration. despite mr. warren's history of antigay activism, specifically his support for proposition 8 in california, which revoked existing marriage rights for same sex couples. >> i'm opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. i'm opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. i'm opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage. >> you think those are equivalent to gays getting married? >> oh, i do. >> oh, i do.
on the issue of prop 8 specifically, mr. warren made the mistake of trying to deny that he had ever taken a position on it. >> during the whole proposition 8 thing, i never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never once even gave an endorsement in the two years prop 8 was going. >> no statement. no endorsement. that ended up being awkward because of the whole bearing false witness thing. >> let me just say this really clearly. we support proposition 8, and if you believe what the bible says about marriage, you need to support proposition 8. i urge you to support proposition 8 and pass that word on. >> i think that counts as an endorsement. rick warren had not only been involved in proposition 8. he had been involved on tape. well, now rick warren has been implicated in much worse antigay politics as uganda, a nation in which he has been intensely involved, is now considering legislation that would imprison
and even potentially execute people for the grave crime of being gay. uganda is the second nation in africa that rick warren designated as a purpose-driven nation. mr. warren launched his national purpose-driven living program in uganda last march. last night on this program we spoke to an anglican priest to has traveled to uganda to report on the development of the kill the gays legislation there. among the things he brought up with us was just how influential rick warren is in that country. >> rick warren went to uganda, you know, in 2008, and he made this saying that homosexuality is not a normal way of life and we aren't going to tolerate any of this and then he goes on to say, therefore, it is not a human rights issue. so you have another big person in terms of how africans look at pastor warren. you have to go there, every church i entered, office i entered, i found his book the
"purpose driven life" and people stare at it and it's more like a second bible. he has a lot of influence so when he makes that statement it carries a lot of weight to the uganda population. >> rick warren has used his influence in uganda not only to promote his own programs, the purpose-driven nation stuff, but also to get involved in ugandan religion and politics flying to uganda last year to announce he was on the side of the ugandan ministers boycotting the church of england for being too pro-gay. rick warren also invited an virulently anti-gay pastor from uganda to come to his own saddleback church in california. while that pastor was being promoted by mr. warren in the united states back home in uganda that pastor was publicly burning condoms in jesus' name. rick warren's involvement in ugandan affairs and his involvement in ugandan affairs was so extensive that he even lobbied u.s. politicians to steer uganda toward abstinence only education rather than condom-based programs which had helped reduce the country's rate of hiv
infections. rick warren's intensive involvement in the politics of uganda included multiple trips to that country and meetings with uganda's first lady. because of all of that, because of his influence in that country and his intensive involvement there, when that country including the pastor mr. warren had invited to his church started pushing this outrageous legislation to kill people for being gay, it was natural that rick warren would be asked his opinion about it. and about a week and a half ago, mr. warren gave his opinion on the subject to "newsweek." he said, quote, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in america to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations. well, now finally after a little bit of attention to this subject in this country, rick warren has finally decided to come out against the legislation. as if he had been against it all along. >> the potential law before your parliament is unjust. it's extreme. it's unchristian toward homosexuals.
requiring death penalty even in some cases. and if i'm reading the proposed bill correctly, this law would also imprison anyone convicted of homosexual practice. i urge you to speak up. the pastors of uganda, speak out against this proposed law. >> for opponents of the proposed law, rick warren's intervention here, his written statement and his video statement, will be filed under the better late than never category. definitely under better. this will be very good news for people who are opposed to this law given his influence in that nation. that said, mr. warren's statement today included the allegation that his role in all this had been somehow mischaracterized by the media saying lies have been told about him and this issue in media that have covered it. as the person who's been doing the most media on this subject, at least on tv, as far as i can tell, we have not said anything inaccurate about rick warren in our reporting. we triple-checked everything we said about him today. i don't think we've gotten one thing wrong about him. if he feels differently, pastor warren, i would be happy to host
you on this program to clarify anything unless you know something we don't i stand by our reporting. another american who has been silent on this issue for weeks is also now speaking out to us. this happened late in the day today. republican senator james inhofe of oklahoma. mr. inhofe has made repeated trips to uganda in recent years. what he has called, quote, a jesus thing, and after days of silence on this issue, senator inhofe is finally telling us this tonight. quote, i was shocked and appalled to learn through media reports of the legislation being considered in uganda regarding homosexuality. i do not, nor have i ever, supported or condoned the abhorrent legislation being considered in the ugandan parliament. to suggest otherwise is absolutely false. it is my hope uganda will abandon the unjust approach being considered. it is unclear whether or not mr. inhofe plans to communicate this view to ugandan authorities. we have asked. we will keep you posted as to
whether or not we sooev reeve a response. one final note on this. republican senator chuck grassley has also come under fire on this subject because of his alleged ties to the secretive religious organization known as the family most famous for operating the "c" street house in washington. the family has been intensely involved in ugandan religion and politics for years and reportedly involved in the origins of the kill the gays bill specifically. it was reportedly announced for the first time at a family sponsored event, the ugandan prayer breakfast. mr. grassley has still not spoken out against the bill, but he did through a spokesperson today say he has never had anything to do with the family ever. senator grassley is described multiple times as a member of the family in jeff sharlet's book-length expose' of the group. we contacted jeff to get his response. jeff told us he stands by his reporting in his book and said that as recently as yesterday he learned from family sources that chuck grassley traveled to uganda in the mid 1980s at the
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to keep them honest, and also to increase competition. if you have a better way, put it on the table. >> house speaker nancy pelosi among the supporters of the public option, who is at least willing to listen to a reform proposal that doesn't include the public option. congressman anthony weiner, once the clearest voice in the house in favor of the public option, is even further ahead of the speaker. on this show last night he said letting younger people into the existing public program -- into the existing public program medicare would be an even more progressive, better policy than the public option as it stands now. congressman weiner's argument is bolstered by the fact that the big public option idea had in the last couple months been compromised down to a blurry little dim shadow of its former self. there is a progressive argument to be made for trading away a small, ineffective policy option in favor of, say, a big expansion of medicare. there's also a progressive argument to be made, however, against it.
activist jane hamsher of firedoglake.com wrote today of the senate bill, quote, shoveling taxpayer dollars into too big to fail insurance companies is not the change i voted for. it forces americans to buy the products of large corporations, then the irs penalizes them if they refuse. and then earlier tonight on "the ed show" here on msnbc ms. hamsher made this promise to wavering democrats. >> we negotiated down from single payor and we've got 65 members of the house who said that they would vote against any bill that doesn't have a public option. and we're going to hold them to that, but we're looking at a situation where we had 88 cosponsors of hr-676 and most of them have headed for the hills. they didn't want to take a stand like that. they're from strong democratic districts and when the going gets tough what they do is enable the bill about which the insurance companies said, we won. they said -- ben smith reported that the insurance lobbyists are saying about this bill, we won.
and if these democrats vote for that -- it can't happen without their help -- we're going to be looking to run single payor candidates against them in their districts. >> jane is not alone in her feelings on this. from moveon.org today it was this. senate democrats have just announce a tentative health care deal that doesn't appear to include a real public health insurance option. instead of pulling out all the stops they've bargained away the heart of health care reform allowing conservative senators like joe lieberman and ben nelson to hold the process hostage and protect big insurance. if the health care bill doesn't include a public option, it'll be a huge giveaway to the insurance companies. any health care bill without a real public health insurance option is simply unacceptable. so says moveon.org. markos, of the daily kos, the very influential blog made the case today. he said, quote, we are about to get a turd of a reform package potentially worse than the status quo. that doesn't sound like something you'd want.
and it points out what appears to be maybe a growing gap between liberal politicians and liberal activists on this subject. and though it is the politicians who make the policies, it is the activists who frankly do what's needed to get the politicians elected -- or not. joining is now the former vermont governor and dnc chair dr. howard dean. governor dean, it's very nice to have you here in person. thanks for coming in. >> the hybrid politician/activist. >> and which are you now? >> here's the deal. first of all, i think this deal -- bill is, as jane pointed out, a giveaway to the insurance companies. it has been from the beginning. because most of the people were never going to be in the public option. it's a giveaway to the insurance companies. anything but a single payor is a giveaway to the insurance companies, plain and simple. secondly, the senate bill really does advance the ball. medicare is the system they always should have used. there is no point in having two bureaucracies instead of one. somebody mentioned the h-776, whatever it is the conyers bill
for the single payor. that was an expansion of medicare. this is an expansion of medicare. the issue is this is an expansion that only goes down to age 55, but it's significant and it goes into effect a few months after the bill is signed. that's very important. and finally, jay rockefeller's amendment, which requires insurance companies pay out 90% of the dollars they take in for health care, today they keep 27% of all the dollars. they can only keep 10%. so there is really reform in the senate bill, to be fair to the senate. the house bill of course covers more people. it's more affordable. hopefully these things will be melded. but the idea of using medicare is a huge step forward and rockefeller's restrictions on the insurance company is a huge step forward. >> in terms of the negotiations, in terms of the worry about what giving up the public option is going to do, i know the process here is sort of push me pull you a little bit. we don't exactly know even what has been given to the cbo. we don't exactly know. we're going to get a cbo score. we don't know what is going to be the final that's voted on but
is it right to worry that by conceding the public option right now without assurances that the medicare thing is going to happen, liberals could be giving away something important to them for a promise rather than an agreement? >> yes. and the house is the safety valve for that. because if the senate pulls reneges -- if the four people, whatever it was, the number of the moderate, quote-unquote moderate democrats, renege on their agreement the whole thing is off and there is not necessarily any support for the progressive community. what i've told folks -- and i've spent a lot of time talking to these folks -- look, don't double cross us. don't lead us down the garden path and hang us out to dry because if you do we're going to be gone and we'll never come back. and then all of the things jane predicted are going to happen. you know, right now the democratic core base, we're not talking about the left wing or the progressive but 70% of the democrats are demoralized by what's going on in health care. and so that's going to affect everybody whether you're ben nelson or whether you're sherrod brown.
it's going to cost us a heck of a lot of seats in 2010. >> is that why the timing is so important that something happens and goes into effect in 2010? >> that's right. there's two reasons the timing is important. some has to go into effect in 2010 for two reasons. one, it's the moral thing to do. two, it counteracts the republican propaganda. the republicans can tell as many lies as they have for the last year about this bill as they want, but if it actually is in effect suddenly the neighbor is going to say, well, i've been in the program for six months and i haven't been called to the death panel yet. you know, i'm still seeing the same doctor i always saw. that puts the lie to all of this stuff. i learned that when i did silly unions, which caused a huge uproar. and once it went into effect, lo and behold vermont was not the aids capital of the world and sixth graders didn't come home having been taught how to be gay by the teachers union. all this stuff that floats around when controversial change happens. the way to put the lie to the propaganda is just to do it. and that's a really important thing. thirdly, if this thing goes into effect in 2011, all the -- excuse me -- 2010, it will give
us a glide path to how to do this right. i'm excited about the senate bill. it is a lot of shortcomings and should insure more people and subsidize them but is really a breakthrough. >> it sounds like what you're sort of issuing is a call for liberals who are concerned right now to stay on this. >> and keep the heat on. i agree with jane hamsher even though we don't agree with the fundamentals of exactly where we are, we need her and folks out there pushing hard on this. we can't lose this now. >> former vermont governor and democratic party chairman howard dean. it's nice to have you near person. thanks for coming in. >> your job is a lot harder than mine i discovered. >> you did great. don't worry. one democrat making the case in favor of health reform on the senate floor is north dakota's byron dorgan, and he has done so with great and unusual style. >> overactive bladder is treatable. >> do you want to hear a north dakota senator read all the embarrassing parts from the tv ads for prescription drugs on the senate floor? trust me. you totally do. stay with us. he really did that. we have the tape. it's coming up. healthy request soup.
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pentagon's idea, find the balloon contest winner. winner's name is secreted inside a hr met cli sealed winner's envelope in the studio somewhere. also i told kent who it is. other than that it's a total secret. first a few holy mackerel stories in today's news. an iranian man went on a religious pilgrimage to mecca in saudi arabia back in late may or early june. his family has not heard from him since. the iranian government, famous for its irate and often absurd accusations against us, is claiming the american government or maybe the saudis are responsible for his disappearance, which you might dismiss as just run of the mill rhetoric from an oppressive regime trying to draw attention away from the latest round of big antigovernment protests at home. you might reasonably think that were it not for the fact that the guy who disappeared is an award winning nuclear scientist who is reportedly on staff at iran's atomic agency.
iranian nuclear scientist disappears without a trace. now, there's a headline. what's more, iran is admitting what his job was and insisting that he be returned to iran. yesterday the speaker of the iranian parliament alleged, quote, it was quite clear the u.s. abducted the iranian nuclear scientist through a plot with saudi arabia. iran and saudi arabia are regional rivals. saudi arabia is our ally in many things. the u.s. does want to know more about iran's nuclear program. and our government has seemed to have had a lot more information in the last few months on iran's nuclear doings than we had before. so the accusation about the disappeared nuclear scientist is not all that absurd on its face. and i for one look forward to all of the international news from here on out. i'd like robert downey jr. to please play the scientist in the movie. thank you. next up the american petroleum institute got an embarrassing lesson in the perils of photoshop today.
the blog astrotruth.org pointing out that the institute's diverse promotional pamphlet isn't all it seems. check this out. look at this guy in the front row. whoever painted that tan on him forgot to paint his hands. ooh. astro truth also found the original image at istockphoto.com where you can see mr. painted on tan used to be white. and another guy over on the right started off very white as well until he got clip art diversified to being asian. if that photo overall looks familiar to you, it may be because the federation for american coal energy security used that same i stock photo clip art in its faces of coal campaign. remember that? we reported on this back in august. faces of coal was a campaign where they purchased the faces of coal for a small fee from a stock photography company, which is apparently the same company that sold the same image to the
american petroleum institute. you would think with all the money they have they would be able to afford more exclusive fake instant constituents. wouldn't you think? apparently not. finally, the next big thing coming to capitol hill is wall street reform. reintroducing our friends downtown in the $8,000 suits to the idea that there are rules that govern their behavior and protect the country from the rapacious self-interested irresponsibility that melted down the entire financial sector at the end of the george w. bush administration. re-regulating wall street after the disastrous result of the deregulation experiment would seem to be a no-brainer. who would argue against it after what wall street put the country through, right? there are those who argue against it, it turns out. and republican minority leader john boehner is trying to form an anti-regulation army out of them. the newspaper "roll call" is reporting this week that house minority leader john boehner and other republicans kicked off their big effort to oppose wall
street reform by meeting with 100 corporate lobbyists all at once. 100 lobbyists. i think we've seen this movie before. >> in the battle of financial regulation of 2009 a.d., an alliance of republican leaders from the center right, far right, and so far to the right you really could see russia from their houses fought the invading democratic army in the mountain pass of capp capitol hill thermopylae. vastly outnumbered the right wing held back the enemy in one of the most famous last stands of history. king speaker of the house nancy pelosi led an army of well over 250. king minority leader john boehner had two options -- either sacrifice himself for the well-being of the big banks who spilled their blood gutting financial regulation for decades or watch the government's hands off approach to regulation burn to the ground. >> this is where we hold them!
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five young american men caught while allegedly planning to fight against american troops. it's a heck of a headline. tonight five young americans are under arrest in pakistan. they're suspected according to pakistani police of trying to go fight against american forces in afghanistan. the five disappeared late last month from the suburbs of washington, d.c. they apparently told their parents nothing. they did leave behind a worrying farewell videotape that purportedly talked about the need for muslims to join the war with the west. that's the point at which things maybe started to work the way they're supposed to. family members of the missing young men reportedly sought some advice and help from the council on american islamic relations.
c.a.r. he e. put the families in touch with the fbi. the fbi started looking for the men. they contacted pakistani authorities who also took these allegations seriously. by now the five young men had made their way to pakistan where they allegedly met with two different terror groups and asked to be trained and sent on jihad. according to law enforcement sources, they turned them down because they lacked references from trusted militants. the men made it to a safe house in the pakistani city of sargodha where the father of one has a home. suspicious neighbors called the police on them and now these five young americans are under under arrest. this is sort of how this sort of thing is supposed to work at least in terms of the law enforcement response. the families, c.a.r.e., the fbi, pakistani police, even pakistani neighbors who appear to be all abiding by the not so old adage that if you see something, you should say something. joining us now is evan kohlmann, nbc news terrorist analyst. thanks very much for your time. >> thanks very much for having me. >> do you believe these guys were doing what they are suspected of? does this seem credible, five
young american muslims suddenly going off to try to fight american troops? >> it fits into a pattern we've? these american muslims suddenly going off to find american troops. >> it's what we've seen happen in the past year in several different cases. we have the case down in laatlaa where two atlanta students sought to get training, reached somehow the al qaeda of taliban and come back to the united states and carry out some terrorist attacks. we've also seen several instances now where families are coming forward and approaching law enforcement whether it's from the sa -- somali community, the american community saying, we don't know what happened to our sons, but they disappeared and we think they're headed for a conflict zone. these are exactly the kind of people al qaeda would like to recruit. they're not that sophisticated,
but they have u.s. pass ports and they're willing to die. >> and according to affiliations, it's not like these young men seemed to be attending a radical mosque or other affiliations. >> that's what's so bizarre, these guys were so radicalized over the internet, but what's most unusual about this case is the suggestion -- it hasn't been proven yet, but the suggestion that an al qaeda recruiter noticed this activity on youtube and contacted them over youtube saying, you know, come join us. and that kind of level of interactivity, that's quite impressive. we've seen self-radicalization on the internet before, weaver seen people take this and move with it, but the idea that al qaeda would recruit over the internet directly, that's something new. we have to see whether or not that pans out. >> how important is it that these two groups these young men
approached said no, we're not interested in you? >> that's another phenomenon we're seeing, and that happened also in the case of the two atlanta area college students. these guys went to them and they looked at them and said, hold on a second, we don't really trust them. i think one of the reasons we're seeing this is because josh mohammad, they're realizing these guys might be u.s. spies. they know they're under the microscope, and it came up yesterday in the david hedlund case. so i think they're afraid now. let's make sure these guys are who they say they are, they're not u.s. spies. and these guys didn't speak or do, they looked very funny, they looked westernized. ordinarily jash might give them training, but with what's going into pakistan, i think these groups said they're too much of a liability. >> it's the nexxus of law enforcement and the war on terrorism and law enforcement is
starting to seem like they're on the surface where they need to be. >> it's great to have your input on this. thank you. coming up on countdown, tiger, inc. what's going on behind the scenes to keep the golfer star's billion-dollar image sbablintac. plus we have a winner on our balloon challenge sponsored by the pentagon's much cooler one. that's next. you don't need to get a phone. you need a phone that gets you. if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever.
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because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle. choosing your own car? now that's a good call. go national. go like a pro. we turn now to our senate oration correspondence. >> there's never been a speech like this, ever, ever. >> sometimes bladder control problems can cause interruptions overnight. it doesn't have to be that way. bladder control is treatable.
>> is that really senator morgan talking about bladder control, so to speak? >> i've got this one body, says sally field, so i wanted to stop my bone loss, and i did more than that, i stopped it with vonida. maybe it's time to ask yourself if ambien is right for you for a good night's sleep from start to finish. >> he wasn't channelling his inner judy garland. it was the high price of advertising, marketing and promoting brand name prescription drugs. in contrast, the senator from north dakota broke new ground for discourse. i doubt he ever imagined he'd be saying something like this in front of his colleagues. >> waiting up to go, starting, stopping, going over and over,
strange? the gentleman yields. >> he's doing the hard work today. god bless him. >> thank you, appreciate that. also thank you to hewey lewis. this time last week, they put ten big eight-foot wire weather balloons at ten undisclosed locations around the country -- this was last saturday. they challenged the public to identify the location of all ten balloons. the first team to do so was a set of grad students at mit. they offered a share of the wings for the contest to people who could either help them find balloons or help them find other people who could find balloons. with that economic incentive, they got all ten balloon locations in under nine hours. they not only won the challenge, of course, they also won $40,000. we hear the rachel maddow show
did not have any cash to give away, but that did not stop us from holding our own balloon challenge. we hid three balloons from the rachel maddow show on our web site. they were on january 30, they were in our august 20 one, and when i first reviewed the health care bill on october 16. we had literally hundreds of pli replies. of them totally wrong. after announcing the start of the competition, we had a winner. actually, we had two winners. the winners are [ drum roll. >> yay! you do not win